Date Like A Man by Tanya Richardson and Lisa LeeKing We've been called "guys" more than once. Just the other day after a Dead Moon show (great Portland band, FYI) Lisa was asked how the drummer got water to splash up from the skins every time he hit them. Heimlich walked into the office right as she was explaining "the old beer on the toms trick," at which point Adam burst out laughing and said, "Dude, you're a fucking guy!"
This sounded all the more insulting lisped in a poncy Danish accent by a guy in fake leather pants. "Well at least I'm a real man, you inbred fuck," she thought.
But there is one thing we've never been accused of?dating like a man. After discussing the new book Date Like a Man with author/dating coach Myreah Moore, we decided that might just change.
We were on the verge of explaining this to a friend last weekend when she launched into a story about the "man" she's been seeing. They've been dating for a few months and have known each other for years. Finally she decided to give up the goods and get some lovin'. After what she described as "hours of great sex," they passed out, woke up and got breakfast. She asked what he was doing that day. He replied that he had "things to do," and should really be getting back. A little miffed, she went home and watched the phone. For five days. On the fifth day she called him, and he invited her to come over for dinner. The following week.
Having read Date Like a Man, we naturally thought the best way for our friend to get over her feelings of loneliness and rejection would be to procure a highball and a lap dance as soon as possible. We were on the verge of telling her this when she starts giggling.
"So guess what! I'm going to stand him up! I'm not going to go over to his house for dinner. And the best part is, he'll have spent all day making it!"
"Dude," we said. "Are you sure you're not a guy?"
Tanya Richardson: We want to talk about your book, but mainly we want advice on our disastrous love lives.
I don't believe you have disastrous love lives.
TR: Right, well...
Lisa LeeKing: You know, just give us some advice.
TR: My favorite line in the book is, "When a man says, 'I'm not good enough for you,' believe him." Then there's stuff that's pretty obvious, like "men don't like condoms" and "men like lesbians."
LL: We all know that men like their pornography and enjoy being talked dirty to.
TR: But the most important line in the book is, "When a man says he's not ready to commit, he's not ready to commit to you." I went out with this guy and he told me he was falling in love with me, and then, from the next day, he never called me again! I saw a male friend a couple of days later and he said, "I hear you're in love. I hear you got this great boyfriend." I told him what happened, and he was like, "Had you been going out a month to the day? Because that's textbook. That's a classic maneuver." So when guys say, "I think I am falling in love with you and I'm scared," is that a line?
No, it's probably not a line. You scared him off because men have agendas. I mean we [women] can do four things at one time, but they [men] can only keep their mind on one thing. You know, like their dick.
TR: We call it the stupid stick.
Okay, the stupid stick. So when they meet a women that could possibly be the one, it freaks them out, because that means he'll have to compromise other aspects of his life. He did not have enough courage to be a real man. But now don't be surprised if he shows up again.
LL: Tanya and I were talking a while ago and we're almost to the point where we'd rather get married and make it work than deal with the bullshit of dating.
That's how all women think, but you really need to date a lot more. Enjoy your life because I'm telling you, once you get married you're gonna go, "Why didn't we enjoy our single lives?"
LL: The whole premise of your book is if we want to have fun and date like a man, we need to treat men like shit...
TR: Basically it says you gotta really lie to people and kinda blow them off. A lot of my girlfriends who have steady relationships always say, "Tanya, you're too honest in the beginning. You give too much away."
Most women think once they've dated a guy for a while, and especially after they gave him the poontang, they're in a relationship. But a guy doesn't think like that. Once he gets the poontang, all he thinks is he got some poontang. Until you get to the fourth month you all are free agents. When you hit the fourth-month period and he's still around, then it's the time to ask if he sees this going anywhere.
TR: I won't have sex with people until I'm really for sure that we're in something committed. That's why I am able to walk away from things.
You know when you take a man into you, that's like taking a part of his soul. We become intoxicated. It's like a drug.
LL: How can men stay so detached and sleep with different women?
Because they're not taking anything into their bodies. Every time you take a man into your body you are creating the opportunity for another life, even if you are using a condom. That's kind of deep.
LL: In more ways than one.
TR: You say women shouldn't be calling guys all the time. When this thing ended with the last guy he said he needed some time to think, but by the time he called me it was two weeks later and I just didn't want to have that conversation. I was over it. So I didn't return the phone call. I walked with some pride.
Normally when that happens, we as women feel like victims. We're hanging around waiting for the phone to ring.
LL: Could you tell us more about your philosophy of dating a pair and a spare?
On the average most men are dating three to four women at a time. Dating, not necessarily sleeping with them. But if a woman will give up the panty they will take it.
TR: If I'm dating someone, one of the perks is having a good sex life. If I'm dating more than one person, I couldn't be having sex with all of those people. Every man I tell that to says, "Why not?"
Don't sleep with three of the people you are dating. You may have someone who I call your "intimate friend." That could be an ex-boyfriend or someone you've dated in the past or somebody you've got the hots for, but you both realize that it's just a physical relationship and it isn't going anywhere. How we get tripped up is we sleep with somebody, the sex is great and then we start deluding ourselves that it's a relationship. With the pair and a spare, the guy you really like you only see once a week. That will give you some perspective on him. If you have time, then date the other two guys as well. And make sure you always have that spare, which I call your bed partner. He takes the edge off so you don't feel the need to hurry up and sleep with the one who you're looking to have a relationship with.
TR: But even for men sex is a big deal. My friend told me that after her boyfriend's best friend died, the first thing her man did was come to her house. He didn't say anything, except, "I need to make love to you right now." She found out hours later what had happened.
Sex is such a primal thing. Making love makes you feel alive, it grounds you. That's why I say you really have to be sure. We really disregard it as just a physical act. Guys know, with the ones that they're really serious about, that they aren't going to get no panty that quick. When they get the panty real quick, they're like, "Okay, she's easy." No matter what you do, they will always treat you that way. Instead some women say, "You want to get in my panties? You're gonna have to wait a while, and if that don't work for you, you can move on."
TR: You say the difference between a man and a woman is that if a man gets rejected by a women, he'll hate that women, whereas a women will have bad thoughts about all mankind. Why is that, and how can we change?
It's a matter of rethinking. Women will pick themselves apart, like, "What did I do wrong to make him treat me like that?" But when a girl rejects a guy, you know what he says? "Her loss." I think [with women] it stems from their own self-hatred. They don't have the courage to say what I really hate is that I allowed myself to be treated like that.
There are exceptions to what I'm about to say, but they're rare. Your average American man, if you show up, he's happy. But hey, it sounds like you're dating like men to me?you're hanging out, having fun. I just get upset when women who have evolved so much, I mean we are now in the work force, we can buy our own homes. I'm old enough to remember when my mom got divorced and she couldn't even buy her own home.
TR: Couldn't get a credit card or anything.
We have evolved so much, but we still work in relationships from an antiquated idea that doesn't support who we are anymore. Look at you guys, you're writers! I'm 42 and when I was your age I couldn't do what you are doing.
LL: My old roommate used to say, "Lisa, you date the same man over and over again, but he's just in a different body." I don't take shit anywhere in my life except when it comes to dating.
I think we are still brought up to think that it's not ladylike to demand certain things in that area. You wouldn't take that type of shit in business! Let him know what you want, if he can't provide it, move on, because honey, some men will, some men won't, some men can't, so what's next.
TR: It's like having a child. You just wouldn't let a child not clean its room every day.
It's really hard at the very beginning if you let him get away with stuff because four months in, he's gonna operate that same way. He ain't gonna change.
LL: What about Tanya and me? We're both stubborn women who have careers we enjoy and tend to go out a lot socially. Therefore it's hard to manage our time when it comes to dating.
I think you should date more. It doesn't always have to be a romantic type of date. It could just be getting coffee. You would learn more about them that way than spending 26 hours with them on one of those marathon dates.
LL: I've been told that I intimidate guys.
Maybe for a while you need to date men a little older than you, so that they can appreciate you. Most men in your age range, you probably totally overwhelm them.
TR: But what is someone in their early 30s doing with a 21-year-old? When I was 22 and dating people who were 32 I felt like I was getting some 30-year-old girl's leftovers. Although I think women need to understand something you mention in your book. We're operating on this fear about men, like there's this war on and men are rationed. As if there's only one can of milk left, so we're all rushing to the supermarket for it. That's why we take all this bullshit.
There are a whole lotta cartons of milk. The other one that kills me with women is when they say, "He never called. I thought he maybe lost my phone number so I called him." Listen Ms. Thing, he didn't want to call! He didn't get amnesia all of a sudden, he didn't get hit by a car, he just didn't want to call.
LL: For a guy to say he's going to call is the equivalent of saying "Have a good night!" to a coworker. It's habitual?they don't mean it.
There is no such thing as a shy man. When a man wants something he'll go out and get it, by hell or high water.
TR: Although if you want to date to like a man, probably the last thing you'd do is sit around thinking about it, reading about it and preparing yourself.
Exactly, but my intention with this book is to get women to start thinking differently.
TR: There's so much that's said in the title. When I told people I was going to talk to the author of Date Like a Man, they were screaming, "What does she say?" That's because everyone realizes that men are winning in this game and women are getting fucked up the ass.
Thank you. And even if you don't like my technique, this book will help you understand how men think.
LL: I live with two males and as I read some of the points in the book out loud, like "Men fantasize about sex; women fantasize about relationships," they'd responded with, "Yep, what's next." One even said he wanted to read your book. Men are definitely interested in this book. They want to know what you're saying about them and if all their secrets are revealed.
From the very first time I started doing seminars in NYC, 65 percent of my clients have been upwardly mobile men. They will say, "I saw you on tv and it seems like you really know how men think. I trust you."
LL: What do you think it takes for a man to commit, for him to be monogamous?
It takes a long time for a man to become emotionally bonded to a woman.
TR: Women fall first, but men fall harder.
LL: I heard this theory once, about your life is like a triangle and your triangle is rarely complete. The three points being a good lover, a good apartment and a good job.
I think every young woman should strive to have that as a mantra.
TR: You have this great breakdown of types of men, and I realized that I was in trouble because one was definitely me?the barfly. The man who uses women to support his drinking habit. Which is like this could be straight out of my...
Honey, I'm gonna tell you something. When I was single I would give a man 10 minutes, and after 10 minutes I'd say, "Are you going to buy me a drink? Because if you're not, I want you to move on because there's somebody across the room that will."
TR: But the thing men don't understand is that when I go to a bar, I go to drink. I don't want bullshit. I don't want freaks hitting on me all night. I'm taking care of business. I'm having a good time.
Holding court, right girls?
LL: We go to this bar downtown because of the great happy hour, plus everyone there is either ugly or fat and no one will bother us.
TR: It's such a freak/loser bar that I can be myself. I can scream. I can do whatever I want and I don't have to worry, because who gives a fuck about these people?
Freak bar! I may have to use that one in the next book. I'm gonna use you two as examples. They wanna go to an ugly freak bar when they want to be themselves!
TR: I want to add that just because you think someone is the one, it doesn't mean they are. You shouldn't spend too much time mourning. If it ended, there's a reason why and you're both better off. But what if someone you had a real connection with who dumped you has a change of heart and wants you back?
You start back at square one. Make him work harder this time so he can appreciate what he had the first time.
Myreah Moore's next seminar in Manhattan will be Tues., April 4, 6:30-9 p.m. Call the Seminar Center for location and ticket information, 655-0077.